English 206 Discussion Question 7

Directions: After reading the lecture, answer one of the main questions, which will appear in red. This question is due no later than July 15. Following that will be other questions, in black, which you should read and think about--they may help you answer the main question. However, you are not required to answer these questions in writing.

Your responses to other students' answers are due by midnight on July 16. Remember: in order to get the full 20 points, you MUST respond thoughtfully to at least 3 or 4 other people's postings. This set of discussion questions is worth a possible 20 points.

Late answers receive 0 points, so post early :)

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English 206 Message Board

Brooke Link
Sassoon Link
Owen Link
Yeats Link
Eliot Link

1. Of the World War I poems by Brooke, Owen, and Sassoon, which do you find the most effective at conveying its message? Why?

2. The Wasteland was published between World War I and World War II, in 1922. Is it still relevant today? Why or why not?

In Sassoon's poem, "They," what does the Bishop say? What do the soldiers say? How do they feel about what the Bishop says?
What is the "cause" the soldiers are supposedly fighting for? Do the soldiers feel they have been fighting for this cause?
What is the poem's message(s) about the war?
Who are "They"?
How is the tone of Wilfred Owen's poem, "Dulce Et Decorum Est," different from the tone of Rupert Brooke's "The Soldier"?
Why did Owen choose this title for his poem?
How does Owen describe the soldiers? Is there anything noble about their lives?
Some readers object to the vivid details Owen uses; why do you think he chose such grim details?
In Yeats's "The Second Coming," what is the opening image? How does it describe his view of what is happening in the world?
Yeats says, "Things fall apart; the center cannot hold." What is the "center"?
The note in your book says that lines 4-8 refer to the Russian Revolution; but they have also been interpreted by various critics to refer to the Irish Revolution and World War I, or all of them. In any case, what do they reveal about what is happening in the world? Are the good guys winning?
The "Second Coming" traditionally refers of the return of Christ to the world. What images of the Second Coming does Yeats give? Does he make this sound like the coming of Christ?
What does Yeats see for the future?
In "The Circus Animals' Desertion," Yeats writes, "I must be satisfied with my heart." What does he mean?
What are his "circus animals"?
When he says, "What can I but enumerate old themes..." what does he mean?
When he says, "...Starved for the bosom of his faery bride..." what does he mean?
Yeats says, "...and yet when all is said / It was the dream itself enchanted me: / Character isolated by a deed / To engross the present and dominate memory." What does he mean?
Where, according to Yeats, did his beautiful images come from? Is he saying that they are, therefore, all illusions and useless? Or is he saying that beauty can be created out of trash?
What do the last three lines of the poem mean?
Some critics interpret this poem to be about Yeats' feeling that, as he aged, his creative powers were waning. Others interpret it to be about what has happened, in Yeats's view, to the world. What do you think?
Why does T. S. Eliot begin The Wasteland with the quote from the Satyricon? How does this help set the tone and introduce the themes of the poem?
"The Burial of the Dead" comes from the Anglican burial service, which emphasizes rebirth into immortal life. What images of rebirth do you see in this section of the poem?
Why is April the "cruellest" month? Why is winter preferable? Does this speaker want to be reborn?
In line 8, a different speaker appears; what can you tell about this person from his/her conversation?
A new speaker appears in line 12; what is revealed about this person?
Another speaker begins talking in line 13; who is this?
In line 17, a new speaker begins talking; is this yet another person, or one we have heard before?
Are any of these people responding to each other? Do we hear full conversations or just fragments? What is Eliot's point in switching from speaker to speaker so quickly? And why not use quotation marks?
In line 19, yet another speaker appears; have we met this one before?
What images are you given of nature in this section of the poem?
What are the "broken images" (line 22)? What is Eliot implying about the power of those images?
What solace does this speaker offer to the reader? How comforting is it?
Why does Eliot include the lines from Tristan und Isolde? What feeling do these lines convey? How do they contribute to the tone/themes of the poem so far?
In line 35, there is a new speaker; and then in line 37, yet another--the person to whom she is speaking. This is the first "conversation" we have seen with two partners. Yet, is it a conversation? How do these two fail to understand each other?
Why does he include yet another line from Tristan und Isolde in line 42?
Is there any regular form, rhyme scheme, or meter to the poem?
What does Madame Sosostris tell her client? Do we hear what her client says? What does her reading predict? What are the images she gives?
Who are the "crowds of people, walking around in a ring," that she sees?
Does Madame Sosostris herself understand the significance of her reading?
Who is the speaker in the last stanza of "The Burial of the Dead"?
By alluding to Dante's "Inferno," what is Eliot implying about London, and about all of the people he sees walking there? How does this refer back to the "crowds of people" seen by Madame Sosostris?
Why does the clock have a "dead" sound?
What is the meaning of the "conversation" the narrator has with Stetson? How does it parody the theme of rebirth? Why does he include the line from Baudelaire as the last line of this section?
What images does Eliot give of life in the 20th century? Is there a God? Is there any meaning to life? What has happened to the power of religion?
What is Eliot's point in giving the reader so many fragments, without ever completing the picture? So many broken-off or one-sided conversations?

*Note: I have provided "black" discussion questions about only "The Burial of the Dead," since that's all you are required to read. If you want more guidance on the other parts of The Wasteland, feel free to contact me.

Woolf Link
Joyce Link
Lawrence Link
Auden Link
Thomas Link

1. One of the complaints people frequently make about Modern fiction is that nothing happens in it. Do you think this is a valid criticism of the three stories we read (Woolf's "The Mark on the Wall," Lawrence's "The Horse Dealer's Daughter," and Joyce's "The Dead")?

2. Dylan Thomas, in "Fern Hill," is reminiscing about his youth, just as Wordsworth often does. Is "Fern Hill" a Romantic poem, then?

3. Now that you've read a bit of Romantic, Victorian, and Modern literature, which, personally, do you prefer? Why?

1. In Woolf's "The Mark on the Wall," how does the narrator use specific, concrete details as an aid to her memory?
How does the narrator let you know her memory may be flawed? Why is this important?
How does the narrator let you know that her imagination colors what she thinks and sees? Why is this important?
How are human relationships presented in this story?
She says, "...what an accidental affair this living is after all our civilisation..." What does she mean? How is the mark on the wall symbolic of that idea?
Why does she not just get up to see what the mark is?
Why does the narrator list all the things she has lost?
What does the narrator imagine about the afterlife?
She says she wants to "sink deeper and deeper, away from the surface..." What does she mean? Why does she want this?
What does she say about how one likes to think of oneself, and how one protects one's own image in one's mind?
What, according to the narrator, would happen if that image were smashed? Of what value, then, is the image?
What does the narrator say about the rules that used to exist? What was their value? What now takes their place? What does she say about freedom?
Why does the narrator keep evoking the past?
When she says, "No, no, nothing is proved, nothing is known," what does she mean?
What does she say about knowledge? How does knowledge compare with imagination?
Why does she say, "Wood is a pleasant thing to think about"?
She says, "Everything's moving, falling, slipping, vanishing...There is a vast upheaval of matter." To what is she referring?
What does the mark on the wall turn out to be?
Why are the characters in this story never named?
In Joyce's "The Dead," how does Lily upset Gabriel at the beginning of the evening? Why does such a small remark upset him so much?
How, in "The Dead," does the reality of what people are thinking and feeling conflict with the images they portray to others?
How does Joyce emphasize the gulf between the social milieu of the people in the story and their internal thoughts and feelings?
Why does Joyce choose to make the party in his story so old-fashioned?
Of what does Miss Ivors accuse Gabriel? How does this surprise and offend him?
What does Gabriel think of saying in his speech? Why does he think of saying it?
What do his aunts represent, symbolically, in the story? What does Miss Ivors represent?
What does Gabriel say about tradition and the new generation in his speech?
When Gabriel is standing in the hallway, looking up the stairs at his wife, what does he see and feel? Why is he suddenly so happy?
What does he imagine it will be like when they get home?
Is Gretta thinking the same things?
Who is the person Gretta is thinking of? Why does this make Gabriel so angry?
Why does Gretta think that Michael Furey died for love of her? Did he?
How does Gabriel's mood change after Gretta goes to sleep? What sort of kinship does he feel with Michael Furey?
In "The Horse Dealer's Daughter," how does Lawrence equate each of the characters with animals?
What is each of the brothers going to do with his life, now that their business has been taken away? What is Mabel going to do?
Why does the doctor come to their house at the beginning of the story? How does the doctor feel about Mabel at this point?
Why has Mabel decided to kill herself?
Why does she enjoy tending to her mother's grave?
How do the doctor's feelings about Mabel change when he sees her at her mother's grave?
Why does Dr. Ferguson save her?
Why does the relationship between them alter? Why does it alter in this way? Why is he so attracted to her?
Why does she say she loves him? How does it affect him when she does this?
What are his feelings for her by the end of the story? How does she feel?
What picture of human relationships does Lawrence seem to be painting in this story?
In "Musee des Beaux Arts," what is Auden saying about human suffering?
Why does he choose Breughel's Icarus as his example?
What is he saying about isolation in this poem? About the significance of individual lives?
In "Fern Hill," what is Dylan Thomas saying about youth and age? About innocence and wisdom?
How does he portray his memory of his youth? What imagery and form does he use to emphasize those feelings?
How does he feel about his youth now?
When he says, "Time held me green and dying / Though I sang in my chains like the sea" what does he mean? What does he know now that makes that time of his youth even more precious?