English 206 Discussion Question 5

Directions: After reading the lecture, answer one of the main questions, which will appear in red. This question is due no later than July 7. Following that will be other questions, in black, which you should read and think about--they may help you answer the main question. However, you are not required to answer these questions in writing.

Your responses to other students' answers are due by midnight on July 8. Remember: in order to get the full 20 points, you MUST respond thoughtfully to at least 3 or 4 other people's postings. This set of discussion questions is worth a possible 20 points.

Late answers receive 0 points, so post early :)

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English 206 Message Board

Arnold Link

T. S. Eliot thinks Matthew Arnold's poetry is seriously flawed: "Arnold's poetry...is academic poetry in the best sense; the best fruit which can issue from the promise shown by the prize-poem..." He sees Arnold as an educator, rather than a poet, arguing that his poetry is wooden, immature, and moralistic. Do you agree? Explain.

In "Isolation: To Marguerite," the narrator says that even though he was far away from Marguerite, he "bade my heart more constant be. / I bade it keep the world away..." Why does he repeat "bade"?
When he says, "And faith may oft be unreturned," why does he choose to use the word "faith" instead of "love"?
In the third stanza, whom is he addressing?
When he says, in the third stanza, "...never yet without remorse / Even for a moment didst depart / From thy remote and sphered course..." what is he implying?
Why should the narrator's heart feel shame?
Why compare what the narrator's heart feels with what Luna felt? In other words, why compare his feelings with those of a mythic character?
Is the narrator "alone"?
What roles does Nature play in this poem and in the narrator's life?
Do the "happier men" of whom the narrator speaks in the last stanza experience true love?
In "To Marguerite--Continued," how does the narrator extend his own loneliness to a universal condition?
How does he use the metaphor of islands and the ocean to emphasize his point?
Why does Arnold mention nightingales, specifically, in stanza 2? Is he deliberately evoking an association with Keats? If so, what is his point?
Who ordered the isolation of the islands (i.e., the human beings)?

Pater Link

In the "Conclusion" to his essay, The Renaissance, Walter Pater says, "To burn always with this hard, gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life." Do you agree?

In the first paragraph of the "conclusion" to The Renaissance, Pater says that physical life is "but a combination of natural elements to which science gives their names." What is he implying about the nature of human life?
He also points out that these elements can be found in other natural objects as well as our bodies. What is he implying about the relationship between humans and nature?
In the second paragraph, he says, "the whole scope of observation is dwarfed into the narrow chamber of the individual mind." Explain what he means.
In the following sentences, he expands on that idea, carrying it further. What conclusions does he draw about the reality of human experience?
What do his conclusions imply about permanence or security?
What do his conclusions imply about the stability of "the self"?
What does he mean when he says, "Not the fruit of experience, but the experience itself, is the end"? How would Victorians such as Dickens or Tennyson feel about that statement?
What does Pater say about habits?
When Pater says, "Not to discriminate every moment some passionate attitude in those about us, and in the very brilliancy of their gifts some tragic dividing of forces on their ways, is, on this short day of frost and sun, to sleep before evening," what does he mean?
What is the purpose, according to Pater, of philosophical theories or ideas?
According to Pater, since time is fleeting, how should we spend it?
What, in Pater's opinion, is the role of Art?

Hopkins Link

Some critics like the way Hopkins makes up words to suit the message and style of his poems; others dislike it. What is your opinion on this issue?

What does Hopkins mean when he says "Glory be to God for dappled things"?
In the first stanza, Hopkins gives several examples of "dappled" things. Why include man-made objects in the list with natural objects?
In the second stanza, he asks "(who knows how?)" Why is this question included?
Why does he include opposites in the second stanza?
What is the one thing in the poem which is unchanging?
"Spring and Fall" is dedicated "to a young child." Do you think Hopkins really meant for it to be read by young children?
What is "Goldengrove unleaving"? How is "unleaving" a play on words? That is, how does it mean two opposite things at the same time?
Reword lines 3 and 4 in more conventional syntax; how does that alter the meaning of the lines?
What does he mean when he says, "...as the heart grows older / It will come to such sights colder..."? How could the word "colder" have more than one meaning?
What does he mean when he says "Sorrow's springs are the same"? What are they? Why will she weep at the sight of the fallen leaves, even after she's seen the same sight for many years?
What thought is it that "Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed"?
What is "the blight man was born for"?
What does he mean, "It is Margaret you mourn for"? How can she be mourning for herself?
What is significance of the title of the poem? We see the fall, in the fallen leaves; but where is the spring?

Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre Link

1. Jean Rhys's novel, The Wide Sargasso Sea, is a modern retelling of the Rochester-Bertha story, from Bertha's point of view. This novel makes it clear that Bertha's madness is largely Rochester's doing. Do you find anything in Jane Eyre that would support such a point of view?

2. Jane certainly deviates from some of the social standards of her time about what roles women should play; we know, also, that Charlotte Bronte, like her character, chafed against the restrictions she faced because she was a woman. Is Jane Eyre, then, a "feminist" novel? Explain.

3. Some critics have seen the numerous coincidences in the novel as a weakness. They especially point to Jane's ending up at the Rivers household, to her "hearing" Rochester's voice in the garden, and to Bertha's ever-so-convenient death. Do you feel that the coincidences in the novel weaken it?

How does Bronte create sympathy for Jane immediately?
How does the weather, throughout the novel, function?
How important is Jane's appearance to her character? Jane thinks she is ugly; is this confirmed by others in the novel?
Does Mrs. Reed treat Jane badly because she thinks she deserves it, or because she believes it is good for her? Is her conscience clear?
Where does Jane's shyness come from?
In this novel, how do people's looks reflect their characters?
What clues, besides his looks, are you given to Brocklehurst's character right away? How does Bronte make Brocklehurst hateful?
What parts of Helen Burns's doctrine does Jane adopt for herself?
Who put a grave marker on Helen Burns's grave? What does "Resurgam" mean?
Jane tells of her childhood, and then skips 8 years to the time when she gets the job with Rochester. Why tell of her childhood at all? Why not just begin with Rochester?
What is the first indication that Jane has other relatives?
What is Bronte's purpose in creating such a strong contrast between the view and the inside of the house?
What is the first indication that something may be amiss at Thornfield? Does Mrs. Fairfax know the truth?
Charlotte Bronte, like most English people at the time, had strong prejudices against the French. How are these prejudices revealed in Jane Eyre?
Take a close look at Jane's first meeting with Rochester. In the typical Gothic novel, or in the typical fairy tale, how do the man and woman typically meet? How do they act? How does Charlotte Bronte violate these conventions in this scene?
In their second meeting, what is Rochester's attitude toward Jane? What is her response? What does Bronte intend to convey to the reader by having her two characters converse about fairies? He blames her for his horse's fall; is that fair? Why does he do it?
How do Rochester's behaviour and character change during the course of the novel?
What is Rochester's attitude toward Adele?
How does Jane respond to Rochester's attempt to boss her around?
In Victorian society, it was assumed that men were crude and active; women were passive, pure, and spiritual. Do Jane and Rochester fit into these stereotypes?
What are the clues that there may be more than meets the eye at Thornfield?
Why is Jane attracted to Rochester?
How do Jane's feelings for Rochester develop and change over time? How does Jane try to deny and resist her feelings for him?
What role does money play in their relationship? How does Rochester try to gain more influence over Jane by using money?
Why is the interlude with the Reeds set into this portion of the novel? What does Jane learn about herself? What does the reader learn about Jane?
When do you begin to suspect Rochester's feelings for Jane?
What hints or omens of evil attend their marriage plans?
Why does Jane hold Rochester at arm's length during their courtship? Does this mean she doesn't love him?
Jane sees Rochester almost as a god; is this, in the context of the novel, a good or bad thing? What hints are given that Jane is deceiving herself about Rochester?
How did Mason find out about the upcoming marriage between Jane and Rochester?
What secret does Mason reveal on Jane's wedding day?
How does Jane react to Mason's story? How does Rochester react?
Take a close look at the scene between Jane and Rochester after Jane emerges from her room. How does Rochester try to manipulate Jane into doing what he wants her to do? What makes her able to resist him?
When Jane leaves Thornfield, where does she go? What is the symbolic significance of her journey? Where does she end up?
Many critics have said that this section of the novel--the part she spends with the Rivers family--is the weakest part of the novel. Do you agree?
How does the Rivers family differ from the Reed family?
Why does St. John Rivers's attention to Jane become a burden to her? She likes to be productive; why does she not feel satisfied by her work with St. John?
How is St. John different from Rochester? Which would society, in general, say is the better man? What is Bronte's point in making them so different?
Why does St. John want to marry Jane? Why does she refuse him?
What makes her return to Thornfield? What does she find when she gets there?
How have the events of his life changed Rochester? How does Jane feel about him now?
Why doesn't Jane tell Rochester right away how she feels about him?
Why (aside from his wife's death) does Jane agree to marry Rochester now? What reservations did she have before, that have now been removed?
Does the novel have a "happily ever after" ending?
What is Bronte saying in this novel about the role of women in her society?
Jane Eyre begins as a penniless orphan, and ends up with a very good life. How does she gain the personal power that leads her to happiness?